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Fifteen years ago the power output of every snowblower sold here in the United States was listed in hp or horsepower. It was a nice simple measurement that everyone in the U.S. was used to.
Then in 2007 or the rules were changed and the engine manufactures started using gross torque as a measurement of the engine’s power . Of course, no one understood what this meant and even though companies like Briggs & Stratton tried to explain it, it still didn’t make much sense.
Then they changed the rules on us again. In fact, this was so confusing that in the 2008/2009 season most snowblower engine manufacturers dropped the torque measurement and now only give us engine size in cc’s.
Today, in the fall of 2020, only a few counties use HP or the metric equivalent. Most, including the U.S. just the cc.
So, this cc to HP chart is as accurate as I can make it. Husqvarna still uses HP in some parts of the world and a few other reputable sources also have the HP in their model numbers. cc to HP
Check all the latest snowblowers here: The Best Snowblowers For You! Fall 2020
cc to HP chart!
I’ll leave the original article below but Husqvarna and others have been nice enough to rate their new engines.
Husqvarna LCT Snow
| Engine manufacturer | LCT | LCT | LCT | LCT |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cylinder displacement | 136 cc | 208 cc | 208 cc | 254 cc |
| Net power at preset rpm | 4 kW @ 3450 rpm | 4 kW @ 3450 rpm | 4.7 kW @ 3600 rpm | 5.6 kW @ 3600 rpm |
| Horsepower | 3.5 hp / 2.61 kW | 5.4 hp / 4.03 kW | 6.3 hp / 4.7 kW | 8.5 hp / 6.34 kW |
| Gross Torque | 9.5 lb-ft | 9.5 lb-ft | 9.5 lb-ft | 12.5 lb-ft |
| Engine manufacturer | LCT | LCT | LCT | LCT |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cylinder displacement | 291 cc | 369 cc | 414 cc | 420 cc |
| Net power at preset rpm | 7.2 kW @ 3600 rpm | 8.25 kW @ 3600 rpm | 9.1 kW @ 3600 rpm | |
| Horsepower | 9.6 hp / 7.16 kW | 11 hp / 8.2 kW | 12.2 hp / 9.1 kW | 14 hp ? |
| Gross Torque | 14.5 lb-ft | 17 lb-ft | 18.5 lb-ft | 25.5 lb-ft |
Briggs & Stratton Snow
| Engine manufacturer | B&S | B&S | B&S | B&S | B&S | B&S |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cylinder displacement | 163 | 205 cc | 250 cc | 305 cc | 420 cc | 420 cc |
| Net power at preset rpm | ||||||
| Horsepower | ||||||
| Gross Torque | 7.5 lb-ft | 9.5 lb-ft | 11.5 lb-ft | 14.5 lb-ft | 16.5 lb-ft | 21 lb-ft |
Honda Snow
| Engine manufacturer | Honda GC190 | Honda GX200 | Honda GX270 | Honda GX390 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cylinder displacement | 187 cc | 196 cc | 270 cc | 389 cc |
| Net power at preset rpm | 5.2 HP (3.9 kW)/3,600 rpm | 5.5 HP (4.1 kW)/3,600 rpm | 8.5 HP (6.3 kW)/3,600 rpm | 11.7 HP (8.7 kW/3,600 rpm |
| Horsepower | ||||
| Gross Torque | 8.3 lb-ft (11.3 Nm)/2,500 rpm | 9.1 lb-ft (12.4 Nm)/2,500 rpm | 14.1 lb-ft (19.1 Nm)/2,500 rpm | 19.5 lb-ft (26.4 Nm)/2,500 rpm |
Loncin Snow
| Engine manufacturer | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cylinder displacement | 99 cc | 212 cc | 252 cc | 265 cc | 302 cc | 420 cc |
| Net power at preset rpm | 4.0kW/3600rpm | 4.4kW/3600rpm | 5.3kW/3600rpm | 6.2kW/3600rpm | 7.8kW/3600rpm | 9.0kW/3600rpm |
| Horsepower | 5 HP | 7 HP | 8HP | 9HP | 10HP | 14HP |
| Gross Torque | 10N.m/2500rpm | 12.5N.m/2500rpm | 15.5N.m/2500rpm | 18.5N.m/2500rpm | 23.2N.m/2500rpm | 26.5N.m/2500rpm |
I spent a great deal of time researching this and I’m not going to spend time trying to explain why the engine manufacturers have changed their terminology. Instead, I’m just going to show you a formula you can use to figure it out yourself.
Here’s the formula I used from the Briggs & Stratton website (rpm x torque / 5,252) The engine manufacturer’s used 3600 rpm most of the time to rate the engine’s horsepower so I will use that number in the formula. I also used the torque ratings from the Briggs & Stratton website for their motors to keep this chart simple. Other manufacturers (like Powermore) may have different torque ratings for their motors.
If you are trying to get exact hp measurements you should research the torque ratings for the specific brand.
For 2009/2010 MTD has dropped all torque ratings on snow throwers. The engines are only labeled in cc’s.
Here is a simple chart of approximate cc to torque to horsepower conversions. It’s not exact, but it will give you a better idea of how big the new engines are. I used 3600 rpm in the formula for this comparison. Assume that your new snowblower motor runs at less rpm.
123 cc = 4 hp
179 cc = 5 hp
208 cc = 8 to 9 Gross Torque = 5.5 to 7 hp
243cc = 8 HP
277 cc = 11 to 11.5 Gross Torque = 8 to 9 hp
305 cc = 13.5 to 14.5 Gross Torque = 9 to 10 hp
342 cc = 15.5 to 16.5 Gross Torque = 11 to 12 hp
357 cc = 13 hp
420 cc = 14 hp
To me, cc’s is not a good comparison from one motor to another. It is also not a good comparison from one manufacturer to another. For example, a 190cc Briggs & Stratton side valve motor will not have the same power as a Honda 190cc overhead valve motor. cc’c don’t give you a good measurement of what the engine is capable of. True, an overhead valve motor from a specific manufacturer should have more power with more cc’s but there are a lot of other factors that go into determining how much power is available for you to use. The true power of a motor is determined by engine type, (overhead valve/side valve) carburetor (naturally aspirated/fuel injected/turbo) rpm you use it at (2750/3100/3650) and many other factors. I hope this helps.
Here is an explanation of torque from Briggs & Stratton
Explanation of Torque from B&S
Here is an original article on this issue:
Horsepower loses its grip on mowers. In terms of engines, talk turns to torque
By Rick Barrett
McClatchy Tribune
Published on: 02/23/08
When you buy lawn and garden equipment this spring, a familiar old term —- horsepower —- will be missing from many engines.
Blame it on lawyers, or engine makers who might have fudged the numbers, but horsepower is no longer the gold standard for small gasoline engines.
Sears, for example, advertises some lawn mowers rated by horsepower, others by torque, and still others by cubic centimeters. And some mowers have no such designation at all.
“Unfortunately, we are not giving consumers the answers they want,” said Bill Rotter, an owner of National Ace Hardware stores in the Milwaukee area.
There’s no longer a horsepower rating for many Briggs & Stratton engines. Last year, Briggs chose torque as its rating system for push mowers, snow throwers, pressure washers, and generators.
In basic terms, torque is a measure of the force needed to turn something like a wrench or a lawnmower blade.
“We think it’s a better measurement of a mower’s ability to cut grass,” said Rick Zeckmeister, North American consumer marketing director at Briggs & Stratton, the world’s largest manufacturer of small gasoline engines.
Horsepower, on the other hand, evolved from a measure of the rate at which a horse could pull coal up a mine shaft into a more technical measurement related to watts. Although most people don’t know its technical meaning, many have found it useful in comparing the power of engines.
So now, consumers may face confusion over how torque equates to horsepower. There isn’t a practical conversion chart because torque and horsepower are two different things.
“Torque doesn’t mean much to the consumer,” Rotter said. “And it’s more complicated for us because it’s almost impossible to try and explain what gross torque means” to someone buying a lawnmower.
Rotter said he wouldn’t be surprised if, down the road, engine manufacturers return to horsepower ratings.
Lawsuit spurs change
The shift away from horsepower ratings came after a lawsuit in Illinois claimed that engine manufacturers were overstating the horsepower of lawn mower engines.
In some cases, the lawsuit alleged, identical engines were labeled with different horsepower ratings, misleading consumers into believing they were getting more power by purchasing more expensive models.
Briggs advertised one engine as having 6.75 horsepower and yet told the Environmental Protection Agency the same engine had 3.6 horsepower, an 88 percent overstatement, according to the lawsuit.
Since at least 1997, engine manufacturers Briggs, Tecumseh, Kohler, Toro, and Kawasaki have reported horsepower ratings to the EPA that were significantly lower than the ratings advertised to the public, the lawsuit said.
For Briggs, it wasn’t an attempt to mislead anyone, according to Tom Savage, a senior vice president at the company.
There are different testing protocols for the EPA than for the general public, Savage said. The EPA ratings are based on a “composite” of test results at different engine loads, while results for the general public are based on an engine’s full power capabilities.
An Illinois judge dismissed the suit last March, but it may resurface.
“It’s still not totally resolved because the judge did not tell us what portions of the suit he dismissed with prejudice or not. So in effect, it allows the lawyers to come back,” said James Brenn, Briggs’ chief financial officer.
The suit included plaintiffs from across the nation, including Susan Barnard, a librarian from Green Bay, Wis.
Barnard bought a Yard Machines mower for $263.70 that was supposed to have a 5-horsepower Briggs engine. Although she was happy with the mower, she was miffed when lawyers involved in the lawsuit contacted her and told her the engine was less powerful than billed.
“I said, ‘Those dirty buggers. You get them to stop doing that. Put me on the lawsuit,'” she said in an interview.
‘Horsepower sells’
Over the years, manufacturers in the intensely competitive small-engine business have used horsepower ratings as a marketing tool.
“Horsepower sells,” said Jeff Hebbard, a vice president at Ariens Co., a Brillion, Wis.-based manufacturer of lawn tractors and other outdoor power equipment. “It doesn’t always sell for the right reasons, but it does sell.”
The horsepower race sounds like what has occurred with electric motors, where power claims have been embellished, said Kevin Brady, a Minneapolis attorney and engineer not affiliated with the horsepower lawsuit.
“You can exaggerate a bit and not get in trouble,” Brady said. “It’s called puffing.”
In reporting to the EPA, engine manufacturers have some leeway to fudge horsepower ratings by about 15 percent.
Sometimes, the same engine is advertised as having different horsepower ratings depending on how it’s sold.
“There are slight adjustments that get them there, but it’s the same engine,” Hebbard said.
Ariens buys engines from Briggs, Kohler, Honda and other manufacturers.
It has been challenging for the engine makers to find a rating system that works, said Dan Ariens, company president.
“Americans are very familiar with horsepower. It’s a number they kind of understand,” Ariens said.
It’s uncertain which power standard the small-engine manufacturers will settle on, if they agree at all.
“Some guys like to have cubic centimeters as their standard, some like torque, and some like horsepower,” said Savage of Briggs & Stratton. “I don’t know if there will be a one-size-fits-all solution.”
SHOPPER’S GUIDE
What to look for, according to Peter Sawchuk, a Consumer Reports power equipment expert.
Ignore: horsepower, torque or engine displacement
Pay attention to: The mower’s cutting width and overall performance, rather than engine statistics.
Look for: An engine with an overhead valve system. It might be more expensive, but it will last longer.
GLOSSARY OF ENGINE TERMS
Torque: Briggs & Stratton says torque is the best way to rate an engine that powers a push lawn mower, snow thrower, pressure washer or other equipment where the engine is turning something. Torque, in basic terms, is a twisting force that causes rotation.
Horsepower: Engine manufacturers typically measure horsepower by operating a “bare” engine, not equipped with accessories or installed in power equipment, at a given engine speed. In technical terms, a unit of horsepower is equal to 745.7 watts, another measurement of power.
Since torque and horsepower are two different things, Briggs says it can’t do a direct comparison.
Cubic centimeters: The volume of the engine’s cylinder chamber. An engine with more cubic centimeters should produce more power. But that could be affected by other features of the engine, including its fuel injector or carburetor.
Here is a link that might be useful: AJC Article
From Popular Mechanics Sept 2017: Here’s the Only Horsepower vs. Torque Explanation You’ll Ever Need To Read
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justy
I think they should rethink the system… And go back to using horsepower.. But every manufacture that sells or makes engines is required to use the same type of dyno or device for measuring numbers.
If a company wants to sell something over big horsepower claims, they will just need to put in a big engine so that claim is true.
CC is very misleading.. I have seen engines 400cc that put out 11hp and others that put out 100 hp… So if a person buys a engine or snowblower.. They will think being my motorcycle is 400cc and 100 hp.. Then this 400cc snowblower should be about that hp too.
Torque is misleading, you can pretty much say any number.. And most people don’t know if that torque rating is based off idling, or full throttle. Again the same cc engines all differ when comes to torque.. Both are bad sell info and give pretty poor description on the abilities that engine can produce. Torque rating can also be easily lied about, sort of like the old hp rating.. Not many people have a dyno in the shed to prove those number are accurate.
Paul
Hi Justy, The lawsuit that changed this was because HP only measures the power of the engine – not the power available to the blade/drive, etc. Torque is a better measurement of what the mower is capable of. Since no one understands (or wants to understand torque) the manufactures just dropped all measurement values. You won’t see HP ratings for lawn mowers in the U.S. again.
Raymond B Danner Jr
its 2020 not sure this link still monitored? Looking at a new snow blower
Have a Simplicity 25 years old 15 HP.
looking to replace with new unit?
Simplicity #1728 #1696921 28″ 420cc $1699.00
Ariens Professional #926077 420cc $2299
When I bought my old simplicity it was top rated back in 1990s, I have heard people tell me stay away and go with the Ariens ??
Paul
Hi Raymond, The biggest reasons why people are running away from Simplicity are: 1. B&S who owns the name filed for bankruptcy this year and we don’t know if the snowblower division is going to survive. 2. Simplicity has lost a lot of dealers so it’s harder to find a dealer to work on one. 3. The design really hasn’t changed since the 90’s. 3. If you were going with Simplicity you would have to move up to the Signature Pro line to be comparable to the Ariens Pro.
The Ariens Pro has been completely redesigned over the years and now is one of the highest-capacity snowblowers on the market. It will last you as long or longer than your old Simplicity.
Eric Rentschler
Seems odd to get away from HP to me. HP has a very specific technical meaning as a measure of power. Power it the most important metric since it is the rate at which work can be done. Sure, there’s imperial versus metric HP, but just state which one your using and everyone’s happy. Also, if you’re talking about engines in isolation, you should always be talking about power at the crankshaft, not at some arbitrary point in a downstream drive-train somewhere. The story reads as if they got away from HP because manufacturers were abusing the HP metric. That’s not a reason to change the metric. That’s a reason to hit the manufacturers over the head and have them actually follow the metric. Torque is a bad metric, since knowing only the torque you cannot convert to power unless you have the torque curve. That’s because power = torque x RPM (along with some constants). Using the displacement only is also a bad metric for reasons that Paul has stated. Seems unproductive to have gotten away from power as a metric. Beyond that, I wouldn’t care if it’s kW, HP or whatever; but make it an actual power metric.
Paul
Hi Eric, Back in 2008 timeframe there was a class-action lawsuit that required all small engine manufacturers to pay owners $25-50 because the HP ratings were not giving accurate power at the mower blade, etc. Because of that the manufactures tried using torque for a while but that also has its problems. Since 2010 or so they all dropped HP ratings here in the U.S.
pat clarke
looking at craftsman 88694 26 inch or husquvana 48603 what’s better
Paul
Hi Pat, Both are good machines for areas of the country that get about 40 inches of snow a year. Both have been around for a while and have a reliability rating. But, given Sears problems right now I would go with the Husqvarna.
edward mattus
I know nothing about engines but the Ariens 24″ Deluxe has a 254 cc motor the same Ariens 24″ but Platinum Series has a 369 cc motor I know it throw snow a little farther but is it going to go up hills easier and push through wet thick snow easier without bogging down. does it really have that much more power I want to buy one or the other. on paper the cc’s make it look like the Platinum cannot be stopped like 369 CC’s on a 24in machine would never bog down but is it just marketing. I’ve asked other places and the only answers are it throw snow five feet farther there’s more area in the piston. And all I want to know is it that much stronger and faster will it eat through thicker heavier stuff without flinching it’s a hundred and something CC’s more on the same chassis
Paul
Hi edward, Yes, the Platinum is a Beast! No one will tell you this but a 254cc is about 8 HP and the 369 is about 12 HP.
So, the 254cc is plenty of power for most snow but the 369cc is over-the-top power for ALL snow. The Ariens Platinum 24 will actually throw 12-14 inches of heavy snow just about as fast as you can walk!
The extra throwing distance comes from not only the larger engine but the Platinum also has a different impeller that gives it more capacity and will throw the snow a little farther than the Deluxe. Up to 62 tons per hour for the Deluxe and 73 tons per hour for the Platinum. To put that into perspective the $2400 Honda 24 inch HSS724AWD has around 45 tons per hour capacity.
airtas18
I have a 13 year old Craftsman 24 inch/ 6.5 HP OHV snow blower. Looking to switch to a 24 inch 208cc Ariens. Looks like 208cc is equal to about 6hp. Does this mean I have less power?
Paul
Hi airtas18, The 208cc has the same power as your older Craftsman. It also has a new carb and fuel system so it won’t be as susceptible to ethanol fuels.
airtas18
isn’t 6.5 hp more power than 6 (208cc covnersion)? Or is the 6.5 inflated and just marketing?
Paul
@ airtas18, my conversion chart is only for comparison purposes and doesn’t reflect the actual horsepower of your old engine or today’s engine. No one uses HP anymore because it’s not an accurate measure of the available power to do the work.
A few now use ft lbs or Newton-meters but most are just listing cc.
The other problem for you is your old Craftsman actually uses an outdated rating. The new rating (changed in 2012ish) that they use for lawn tractors etc., is more accurate and would probably list your engine in the 5.5-6 HP range.
In addition, each manufacturer uses their own internal design so the power can be much different for a given cc. For example, I used to rebuild a 250 cc motocross engine that was rated about 13 HP but with internal mods could get it to deliver 25-27 HP.
In the 24 inch snow blower arena 179cc is adequate, 208 cc is good and the acceptable size for MidWest snows, 252 cc will handle most anything and 369cc is over-the-top power.
Mike
Hi, Great site you have. Honestly I hope you’re making money from it!
I’m wondering about your opinion on the Murray Model # 1696637, which is currently on clearance at Home Depot in Canada (at least at my local store) for $523. I think this would be an excellent price even if it was US$, but that’s Cdn.
I can’t find any information about this machine anywhere, and there are no reviews on the Home Depot web site. On a parts supply site I found, it says Murray is now known as Yard Power, although I can’t find any info on that either. It seems very similar or identical to a Murray I see listed on the US Walmart site, http://www.walmart.com/ip/17048541, except for the colour.
Will this be suitable for the extreme winters we get here in Ottawa ? I actually don’t mind pushing snow off the driveway too much – it’s a 4 car driveway, 2 cars by 2. My main concern is the snow plough ridge. Will this blower have enough ooomph to get through it ?
I think these will be sold out by the end of the week if not before. Any quick information/analysis would be very much appreciated, thanks.
Paul
Hi Mike, That’s actually an easy one to figure out. If you compare the auger housing to the other snow blowers made by Briggs & Stratton that machine is the same as the Briggs and Stratton 1696610 Dual-Stage Snow Thrower with 208cc Engine and Electric Start
.
Briggs has been using the Murray name down here for the big box stores. Wal-Mart, Menards, etc. With no snow so far it looks like they want to get rid of some overstock.
For your size driveway it will do the job well. It does not throw as far as a Cub Cadet or Craftsman but it will clear that end of driveway snow quickly and save your back in the process.
No power steering, no remote chute deflector. Good Briggs engine. The tires are ok. The price is great!
G. L. Gillis
I’m in Grand Rapids Michigan. I have to clear about 170 ft of 2’+ wide side walk; 130 ft of 7-8′ wide; 30 ft of 12-14′ wide; plus 150′ of driveway edges; and the front of a four stall garage and edges of large paved area in front of it. Add to that Been using an Ariens 520 two stage auger propelled that I got in Nov. of 1999. It still works fine and had engine and drive redone by Geo. Hofacker Equipment north of Grand Rapids a few years ago. I’ve gotten old in the meantime and am thinking of treating myself to a self propelled machine. I like the Ariens; and Cub Cadet compact was well rated. Weight is a factor as I have to move it around. The Toro SnowMaster is new, but I’m not happy with plastic parts. I had a 1980 Toro 200 snowblower and thel plastic housing cracked more than once. I’d consider the budget Ariens, Sno-Tek, though it has a plastic chute. Do you have any suggestions for a self propelled upgrade to the Ariens 520? I don’t clear the huge driveway but there is planty of sidewalk and edges to do around here. Thanks for your help. Geoff Gillis
Paul
Hi Geoff, Clearing that much area with a 20 inch probably took you all day!
The “plastic” on todays Toro snow blowers is very different from that made back in the 80’s. This polymer is designed to handle -104 degree temperatures and I can say I never hear of anyone have cracked chutes or control on a Toro. Besides the poly chute carries a lifetime warranty.
I am going to suggest 3 snow blowers. All of them have power steering and are easy to use.
Craftsman 88694 – 26 inch 208cc Quiet Engine. 4-way chute, power steering. You can buy it online or at your local Sears store. Buy Online here: Quiet 208cc Dual-Stage Zero Turn Snowblower
Cub Cadet 524 SWE – 24 inch 208cc engine. 4-way chute, power steering. You can buy online or order it through Home Depot: Cub Cadet Snow Removal 24 in. 208cc 2-Stage Electric Start Gas Snow Blower with Power Steering 2X 524 SWE
Ariens Deluxe 24 – 24 inch 254cc engine. remote chute, automatic steering (no triggers to pull) This is a heavy-duty snow blower that is an upgrade to your old Ariens. It’s built better than your old machine but will be much easier to use. I highly recommend this on over the Sno-Tek or Ariens Compact. You will have to go to an Ariens dealer to get it.
Clint Martin
What would be really nice is to use a standard such as tons per hour, like Honda uses on their snowblowers. This way, you know exactly what you need to…the amount of snow you can move in a given time.
Paul
Hi Clint, Actually tons per hour is even worse than cc’s because every snow is different. Each snow fall has a unique moisture content so a ton of snow from one storm will weigh and throw differently than the snow from the next storm. If I used tons per hour I’d be sure to make my measurements on a day when the humidity is high so the weight of the snow would be at it’s greatest.
Throwing distance, tons per hour – if I could put all the snowblowers side by side in a field after a snow and then have enough operators to run all of them at the same time ……
Clint Martin
Paul, you would have to do it in a controlled environment like Consumer Reports does. They use a specific type of sawdust with water mixed into it to simulate snow. Even if you use CC’s HP or torque, it depends on the gearing, size of impeller, ect.
Paul
Hi Clint, to carry on this discussion. Yes, the CR test is consistent except they will give the same, exact machine – just painted a different color a different number rating. I’m sorry, sawdust is sawdust and it has nothing to do with snow. That said, Toro rates the new single stage 24 inch Snowmaster at 2000 lbs, a minute. Honda rates the new 24 inch 2-stage snow blower at 1900 lbs. Is the Toro better?
Eric Murphy
Point taken… In that context it makes sense..
Eric Murphy
“Ignore: horsepower, torque or engine displacement
Pay attention to: The mower’s cutting width and overall performance, rather than engine statistics” sound like a quote from a writer, not an actual worker / user.
This is how we shop for a product. We want to decide if we think it will do the job it is designed to do, and meet our expectations, before we purchase the machine. Once we have a chance to realize the overall performance (good or bad), it’s too late, we have already made the purchase.
Paul
Hi Eric, Not to argue but Peter Sawchuk is a long time expert at Consumer Reports. He made this quote around 2008 when the entire industry was being dumped upside down by lawsuits about how we rate engine power. I’m sure he was referring to the testing Consumer Reports does where they look at not only statistics but actual cutting performance, noise, ease of use and other factors.